Articles | Volume 25, issue 6
https://doi.org/10.5194/acp-25-3841-2025
© Author(s) 2025. This work is distributed under the Creative Commons Attribution 4.0 License.
Pristine oceans are a significant source of uncertainty in quantifying global cloud condensation nuclei
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- Final revised paper (published on 02 Apr 2025)
- Supplement to the final revised paper
- Preprint (discussion started on 01 Jul 2024)
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Status: closed
Comment types: AC – author | RC – referee | CC – community | EC – editor | CEC – chief editor
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- RC1: 'Comment on egusphere-2024-1863', Anonymous Referee #1, 05 Sep 2024
- RC2: 'Comment on egusphere-2024-1863', Marc Daniel Mallet, 11 Sep 2024
- AC1: 'Comment on egusphere-2024-1863', Goutam Choudhury, 30 Oct 2024
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AR – Author's response | RR – Referee report | ED – Editor decision | EF – Editorial file upload
AR by Goutam Choudhury on behalf of the Authors (30 Oct 2024)
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ED: Referee Nomination & Report Request started (17 Nov 2024) by Timothy Garrett
RR by Marc Daniel Mallet (06 Dec 2024)
RR by Anonymous Referee #1 (21 Dec 2024)
ED: Publish subject to minor revisions (review by editor) (21 Dec 2024) by Timothy Garrett
AR by Goutam Choudhury on behalf of the Authors (06 Jan 2025)
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ED: Publish subject to technical corrections (14 Jan 2025) by Timothy Garrett
ED: Publish subject to technical corrections (05 Feb 2025) by Ken Carslaw (Executive editor)
AR by Goutam Choudhury on behalf of the Authors (10 Feb 2025)
Author's response
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The manuscript by Choudhury et al. (2024) addresses a very important topic examining and comparing two state-of-the-art cloud condensation nuclei (CCN) abundance data sets. One of these is derived from aerosol extinction calculated from the CALIOP lidar data set by Choudhury and Tesche (2023) and the other a blended aerosol model-MODIS aerosol optical depth data set known as Copernicus Atmosphere Monitoring Service (CAMS) aerosol reanalysis (Inness et al., 2019). Using data from roughly 2007-2020, the authors compare the CCN in various regions of the Earth, examine seasonal cycles in these regions using monthly statistics, and finally examine trends over the period of record – also bringing in MODIS derived cloud droplet number concentrations (Nd) in the trend analysis.
The authors find that the CCN data sets present reasonably good agreement in the Northern Hemisphere. However, the agreement is strikingly different in the pristine Southern Hemisphere oceans. This disagreement shows up in the mean statistics with CAM being significantly lower in the annual mean compared to the CALIOP data. These differences extend to the seasonal cycle where the two data sets are largely opposites with the CALIOP data showing a winter maximum and CAM showing a winter minimum. The trends are also different with the CALIOP data showing an overall decreasing trend that is consistent with the MODIS Nd data whereas, over the pristine Southern Ocean, CAM has an increasing trend. The large differences between the Northern and Southern Hemispheres points to structural issues with at least one of the algorithms in regions of low natural AOD. While the authors are careful to present a balanced examination, they do argue that the CALIOP data set is the more reasonable in the regions of disagreement.
Overall, I find the manuscript to be well written and concise. The authors examine a very important topic. It is my opinion that the manuscript will be an important contribution to the scientific literature on this topic. I do have two major points of criticism, however, that should be addressed before the paper is published.
My main point is that the authors neglect several papers that document the seasonal cycle of CCN in the Southern Ocean. The authors correctly cite the fact that in situ data sets are rare, but they seem to have missed several very strong observational studies that could bring light to the seasonal cycle discrepancy they find in the pristine Southern Hemisphere oceans. For instance, data from the Cape Grim observatory have been used to demonstrate the seasonal cycle in CCN in Southern Ocean air masses in papers dating back to the early1990’s (Ayers and Gras, 1991) and more recently (Gras and Keywood, 2017) looking at more than 3 decades of data. While the Cape Grim observatory is situated just a few hundred km from mainland Australia, the authors of these papers are careful to use only data that represent pristine Southern Ocean air masses that have had long trajectories over open water to the southwest. Both papers show a seasonal cycle in CCN that is in striking agreement with the CAM dataset that have a winter minimum in CCN in all the Southern Ocean regions analyzed. While the authors cite the paper by Humphries et al. (2023) to support the CALIOP winter maximum in Southern Ocean CCN arguing that higher winds drive sea salt aerosol, the Humphries et al. paper also shows in situ seasonal cycles from ships over a wide latitude belt extending from Australia to Antarctica that agree boradly with the winter minimum in CCN. This winter minimum extends to low-level clouds as well. McCoy et al. (2015) demonstrate such a seasonal cycle analyzing MODIS cloud data while Mace and Avey (2017) analyze CloudSat data to also show a significant winter minimum in Nd over the Southern Ocean.
It is my opinion that the authors really must address this body of literature since it seems evident that the CAM data set accurately captures the seasonal cycle in the pristine Southern Ocean while the CALIOP data set simply does not. This would imply that the CALIOP retrieval algorithm has serious issues in pristine oceanic regions. I am also quite skeptical of the trend analysis presented in this paper. There is very little discussion of the methodology. The instruments being used (CALIOP and MODIS) aged substantially over the period considered. The authors do not discuss how they have accounted for the aging of instruments and how this has been accounted for in their trend analysis.
Thus, I recommend a major revision of the paper with more critical focus on the discrepancies in the pristine Southern Ocean.
References that are not cited in the manuscript:
Ayers, G. P., and J. L. Gras (1991), Seasonal relationship between cloud condensation nuclei and aerosol methanesulphonate in marine air, Nature, 353, 834–835.
Gras, J. L. and Keywood, M.: Cloud condensation nuclei over the Southern Ocean: wind dependence and seasonal cycles, Atmos. Chem. Phys., 17, 4419–4432, https://doi.org/10.5194/acp- 17-4419-2017, 2017.
Mace, G. G., and S. Avey (2017), Seasonal variability of warm boundary layer cloud and precipitation properties in the Southern Ocean as diagnosed from A-Train data, J. Geophys. Res. Atmos., 122, 1015–1032, doi:10.1002/2016JD025348.
McCoy, D. t., S. M. Burrows, R. Wood, D. P. Grosvenor, S. M. Elliott, P.-L. Ma, P. J. Rasch, and D. L. Hartmann (2015), Natural aerosols explain seasonal and spatial patterns of Southern Ocean cloud albedo, Sci. Adv., 1, e1500157.